With many of Oregon’s students graduating from high school last month, it seemed appropriate to look at the college and career readiness of Oregon’s high school graduates. So, I decided to conduct an interview with someone who has first-hand experience with Oregon’s grads.
Bob Turner is a former professor of biology at Western Oregon University. Prior to working at WOU, Bob taught at both Wesleyan University and Clackamas Community College. Bob holds a BS in Biology from Seattle University and a PhD in Embryology from the University of Oregon. His research interests include cell interactions in embryos and the immune system, nontraditional teaching methods, and peer mentoring to increase student success. His policy interests include the alignment of high school proficiency and university and community college expectations, the adoption of an internship/residency program for teachers in training, and objective models of student assessment for high school through college.
SM: At the federal level, there is a lot of talk around college and job readiness. What do you see as Oregon’s strengths and weaknesses in these areas?
BT:
- Strengths: The new high school diploma is a major strength because it requires demonstrated proficiency in the Essential Skills of reading, writing, and math. Additional strengths that grow out of these new graduation requirements are the ongoing work to insure valid assessment of the Essential Skills and a K-8 curriculum that better prepares students for high school.
- Weakness: There is a fundamental weakness in these conversations at both the federal and the state level, in that the conversations usually open without explicit, concrete definitions of “college” and “job”. For example, the Oregon Department of Education found ten overlapping descriptions of “college ready” in recent publications, and, in order to expedite their conversation, wisely agreed to use a single one of these definitions. National and state conversations seem to be flailing as they seek a single set of standards that are attainable by all high school graduates, simultaneously prepare students for “college” in the absence of single definition of “college”, and additionally seek to produce high school graduates that return our graduates to an internationally competitive level. This lack of clarity is, at several levels, an obstacle to concrete progress to realistic standards for becoming college and job ready.
- It should also be noted that questions concerning the complications of comparisons of the achievements of students from different nations have not been adequately answered.
SM: What type of research and/or data should we be looking at to inform policy decisions around college and job readiness in Oregon?
BT:
- As my preceding response implies, first there must be agreement on the definitions of “college” and “job”. Of course, it is also reasonable to examine the requirements for a small number of different “colleges” and “jobs”.
- College ready students do not require remedial courses and progress without inordinate delay through their chosen course of study, so data should be collected on remedial course taking in college and on progress to the college certificate or degree.
- Both nationally and in Oregon, an increasing number of students are earning college credits for academic work completed in high school, suggesting that policy makers would benefit by having data on college placement exams or grades in courses taken in college, particularly in courses that require mastery of the academic content of the expanded options courses.
- Though clearly impacted by the strength of the economy at the time of graduation, data should be collected on the rate at which high school graduates obtain and are retained in their jobs.
- Surveys of high school graduates about their immediate employment and satisfaction with their preparation for employment ought to be considered for administration at reasonable intervals for the first ten or so years after graduation.
SM: What could high schools do to better prepare students for success in the Oregon University System?
BT:
- This question must be addressed not just to high schools, but to the K-12 system, since the high schools cannot be expected to effectively compensate for inadequate preparation for high school.
- Though not the case for the very best students, the vast majority of students arrive at OUS institutions uninformed about and unprepared for the expectations of the university. A major reason for this is that their K-12 experience has taught them that their grades will be positively impacted by attendance and extra credit, and that they will receive credit for work that is not turned in on time or as required. High schools can improve the students’ understanding that they are responsible for the results of their work, that attendance is a minimal expectation, that there will be no extra credit to compensate for their failure to master the required material, and that their work must be submitted on time and as requested.
- Teach students that, if they are going to succeed in college or in a job, they WILL eventually face a high stakes situation, and provide them with practice at these situations, so they develop self-confidence rather than self-doubt.
- Students also need to have learned that they are able to learn, that learning is extremely fulfilling, and that they need to be prepared to do the work necessary to learn.
- Though it is easily rendered trivial by poor, lax implementation, self-reflection and metacognition concerning their learning can be extremely helpful to the student.
- This survey does not seem the proper venue for a complete discussion, but students need to be solidly based in the three R’s. Unfortunately, there is a current move in math to prematurely move students into advanced math in high school before they have mastered their math base. The recently completed national common core math standards illustrate this. In this context, insufficient attention has been paid to the math expectations of university teachers of entry level classes that require math.
SM: Conversely, do you think there are additional ways in which universities could work with high schools to prepare students for success in college?
BT:
- Yes – establish scholarships for successful junior and senior level university students who interact with middle school and high school students of the same background to use their common culture and language to make the K-12 students aware of the opportunities for and expectations of post-secondary education.
- Provide the same math, reading and writing placement exams online for high school students and teachers that are used at the university. This would enable the high school teachers and their students to immediately evaluate the proficiency of the individual student relative to the expectations of the university faculty. It would also emphasize the importance of these three academic skills.
- Continue the current K-16 data linkage work that will enable all sectors of the education system access to data for evaluation and improvement of students’ learning experiences.





Stacy and Bob: Really enjoyed hearing your conversation. Bob, I was struck by your thoughtful and systematic insight on the Oregon system. I want to underscore the importance of aligning workplaces and schools. I believe people in our community want to help students transition into the economy. I would like to see more apprenticeships established in secondary education to give students more opportunities to understand what different positions entail. I’m curious to learn more about any historical precedent in Oregon for offering workplace field trips/ internships for young adults.
I don’t disagree with anything said but we must add to main aspects–families and communities. The role of “job readiness” is part of K-12 but what we hear about college graduates seems true for high-schoolers as well. They know the materials but can’t learn new stuff, they have little experience working in teams, communicating with others, sharing ideas in a persuasive way, they have trouble defining and solving a problem. So we train but we don’t teach. They learn but aren’t learners. They have skills but have trouble with intentionality. They don’t see the big picture, the context. And this is for the top students.
So what is the role and responsibility for the larger community. Summer jobs, internships, expectations, working with others, turning off the TV/computer.
And for colleges? The idea for me is to get K-12 to college, to meet college students, to have these experiences as often as possible. “College” should not be a mystery, should be a continua of experiences, of skills and attributes.
Mariah – I will have to do some checking and get back to you regarding what precedent might exist for apprenticeship/internship experiences. I do not know whether there has been a statewide conversation and/or policy on this topic. I do know that some schools/districts offer an early-release program for upperclassmen who are on track to graduate and want to gain work experience rather take additional electives (though I am not sure how extensive these programs are, how they are monitored, or what exact linkage exists between the school and employer).
From personal experience and observation, I can say that vocational/pre-professional classes and organizations such as Future Business Leaders of America (FBLA) and Future Farmers of America (FFA) can offer valuable – and marketable – job skills. Just a few days ago, I was chatting with some college friends as they discussed a need for computer skills that I was fortunate to gain in my tenth grade business class. So while I agree that we should look at opportunities for partnerships with business, it’s also important to recognize the job skills that can be gained in the classroom – especially with the high-stakes budget conversations that are happening across the state.
I’ll see what info I can find on school/employer partnerships.
Ryan – The point you make is similar to Mariah’s; however, I think you raise some larger issues. It’s fair to say that we could make a more concerted effort to help students and recent grads (of any level) make the transition from the school environment to the working world – generally through experience, and, as Bob states, an understanding of the expectations they will face. The career center on a college campus can generally be a resource for those seeking employment – not only providing job-search assistance, but also offering workshops on professionalism, networking, and other business skills. However, the opportunities will vary from school to school, and it is still up to the student to seek out such programs.
I would agree that there is a need for such programming/curriculum at both the secondary and post-secondary level, but sometimes the issue is also about drive and work ethic; that’s something that may be more difficult to address at the school level. So, as you ask, where do communities and families fit into the equation? I don’t have an answer, but I think it’s a great question and welcome any other commentary.
On your final point, I wholeheartedly agree with the importance of exposing students to the notion of college (both four-year, two-year, and vocational programs) early on – particularly through campus visits and interaction with students, but also through informal conversation woven into the normal curriculum. As such, I am a big support of programs such as GEAR UP (Gaining Early Awareness and Readiness for Undergraduate Programs, http://gearup.ous.edu/index.php) and ASPIRE (Access to Student assistance Programs In Reach of Everyone, http://www.aspireoregon.org/), both of which help to demystify post-secondary education for students. Expect future posts on these programs.
[...] I posted an interview with former Western Oregon University professor, Bob Turner, about Oregon students’ college preparedness, I received a question about student work experience [...]